Never let cybernats.com be accused of bringing you all the latest news and views just as they happened. I originally intended to do a piece on the Bonfire Night Big Debate immediately afterwards, but unfortunately I’ve been diagnosed as having osteoarthritis in my right wrist and so was unable to scribble any notes down while the programme was showing. I can’t even write my name at the moment but I’m not too worried. As long as I can put an X in the right box come 2014 I’ll be fine 
The condition is apparently a degenerative one caused by overuse of the joint. Looks like these Baywatch lassies have got a lot to answer for…
Anyway, the Big Debate. There’s no point going through a blow by blow account and boring the 2 of you that are left, but having watched it on iPlayer I confess to feeling reasonably impressed with the way it was handled. The Beeb have realised that 3 unionists v a solitary Yes campaigner makes their leanings just that wee bit too obvious, but I have to say that I couldn’t really see much in the way of bias. Mind you there were a few excellent points from the audience that were just glossed over when they could’ve been used to nail those on the panel, particularly Talkingoutofhisanas Sarwar. When asked about whether his party was in favour of renewing Trident he embarked on a bizarre, uninterrupted soliloquy about how we need to work internationally to remove them, shifting them down the road won’t solve the problem, and that the SNP think we can stay within the EU and Nato while keeping the pound and the Bank of England. All in the same breath. Quite impressive. No such courtesy for Angela Constance who was accused of hypocrisy over the SNP stance on NATO even though the party had an open and democratic debate on the policy. Remember these? They’re things that happen when the party hierarchy don’t have security men frogmarching 80-year-olds out of the conference halls.
Let’s go back to the EU one for a moment. Anyone else getting sick of that tedious nonsense? I’m going to give that technique a try:
Tulisa and Nicole from the X Factor were round at my place a couple of weeks ago helping me make the best use of the extra hour.
Tulisa and Nicole from the X Factor were round at my place a couple of weeks ago helping me make the best use of the extra hour.
Tulisa and Nicole from the X Factor were round at my place a couple of weeks ago helping me make the best use of the extra hour.
Strange – I thought if you kept repeating something over and over it’d make it true?
Sarwar’s other contributions were about how we need an open and honest(!) debate with transparency and how we need to put the facts in front of the people, presumably by asking them all to buy the Daily Record every day. He wants the Scottish and UK Governments to work together while every day he fights to get Ed Miliband into Downing Street and continues to draw his MP’s salary and claim his expenses, although he neglected to mention that last bit. Oh, and he wants the referendum tomorrow in spite of belonging to a party that were dead against it for years and mocked the Scottish Government for failing to bring forward plans that they’d already decided to block along with their allies. Tomorrow doesn’t leave much time to get all the facts out to the people all the same.
Wullie “member of a VERY exclusive club” Rennie was also on the panel. I always wondered what he looked like. One thing I did notice was that he always remembered the questioner’s name which was impressive. Certainly a lot better than, “Yes, you in the ridiculous shirt next to the wee speccy guy with the plooks…” Wullie wants more powers for Scotland within a federal UK. What powers will these be? To be determined later of course even though the Yes side are supposed to lay out everything that will happen over the next 50 years in advance. Wullie also can’t see why we’d want to be a wee country where we’d have no say on the global stage when we could be part of a bigger one where we…er.. don’t have much of a say really. “Influence” is what Wullie calls it, cos we’ve got plenty of that now…
<dring dring>
“Allo, People’s Republic of China.”
“Oh hello, old boy. It’s Her Maj’s Foreign Office here. I say, it’s just not cricket the way you yellow fellows are treating these Tibetans. Would you mind awfully not being so beastly to them?”
“Fook off.”
<click>
Tom Devine brought some sanity to proccedings, saying that these mythical “more powers” should be cast in stone pre-referendum and I’d really like to see one of these debates set up where there is no involvement from politicians at all. This is one point where the Yes side is extremely vulnerable as there seems to be no distinction in the public’s perception between the Yes campaign and the SNP, or more specifically, Alex Salmond. It really needs to be hammered home that there’s so much more to it than that, especially given the “we cannaes” admission that they’ve got absolutely no arguments and will instead be launching character assassination attempts on the First Minister. I disagreed with Mr Devine on his statement that in the event of a No vote there should be something in place like Devomax for the Yes voters. If we haven’t got the balls to run our own country then we’ll deserve the neutering that we’ll surely get. In the event of a Yes I’ll expect the “we cannaes” to accept it and if they don’t I’ll happily wave them goodbye at the ferry ports.
Angela Constance and Patrick Harvie did well against admittedly feeble opposition and it was good to hear it stated that in an indepependent Scotland there would, believe it or not, be a whole range of differing political opinions despite the MSM’s attempt to portray it as living in Salmondonia.
The audience of youngsters did raise some good points and ask some perceptive questions although it was noticeable that no panellist was asked to respond to the one about why do people say we can’t support ourselves since the unionists would obviously have had to embarrass themselves. Similarly, there was a rather confused young lady who couldn’t understand how education would continue to be free in an independent Scotland, no doubt thinking that England is the equivalent of mummy who generously provides us with all our cash while we contribute nothing ourselves. Angela Constance was quickly interrupted by Gary Robertson when she began to explain how it was an important aspect of SNP policy and not up for negotiation. Quite right too. We couldn’t have the unionists asked to justify their own views on something like that after all.
The star turn of course was obviously the wee nyaff who asked, “Can we be sure that people will be voting for the right reasons and not because they watched Braveheart the night before?” Forget the Highers, sonny cos you’re on your way, you’re going straight to the top. He’ll be packing them in at the Palladium within 3 years with comedy like that. Maybe 16 should be the minimum IQ level rather than the age one?
Speaking of which, no doubt you heard that Ian Davidson has been at it again with his ludicrous assertion that regions of Scotland should remain part of the UK if they vote No. Last time I heard this drivel was when it came from Michael Kelly and I just assumed that… well, it came from Michael Kelly. Little did I think that anyone else would consider that there was some mileage in these deranged ramblings. By the same rules, if there’s a No vote then the regions that vote Yes can declare independence? Or doesn’t it work that way on Planet Unionist? They should maybe think about designing custom posts into the new Forth bridge just in case the Lothians and Fife vote the opposite way from each other. Doesn’t it get ridiculous?
If I vote Yes and my good lady votes No will there be barbed wire and machine gun posts down the middle of the bed and I’ll need to apply 3 weeks in advance for a visa should I wish to “visit”? Proof indeed that in an independent Scotland some things will remain exactly as they are…
A Cybernat
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The Big Debacle is not of any use whatsoever in terms of the debate. A constant blethering on about what people think is not helping; there needs to be a format in which 1.5hrs is spent on just one issue with a panel of experts chosen by both sides that will ratify or discredit bllx from politicians.
Is that too much to ask? Yes, if you’re a Brit nat and just wish to repeat the same line over and over again whilst treating the independence debate as a big council election; no if you believe the facts should be aired and desire to see the constitutional debate meriting serious discussion.
6 more months of this and nobody will care.
That then leaves the last 6 months to build up momentum and win the referendum in a hostile anti-independence establishment environment — very difficult, likely impossible to do.
The BBC needs to be ignored until a decent debate format can be created and the pro-indy activists need to get on the streets and knock on doors… if they don’t then we’ll be neutered in a way that Thatcher could only imagine in her wildest dreams.
The problem with the Beeb is that it’s always going to be there. I’m hoping that this whole Jimmy Savile cover-up thing will deal its credibility a blow from which it’ll never recover. After that though there’s still the newspapers to be dealt with. It’s a tough ask. I must admit to getting discouraged sometimes.
Dave
I did watch the debate, though I don’t think I learned anything of consequence, though I am always pleased when Harvie is on a panel, he put some good points across and got the chance to make them without being constantly interrupted as is always the case from any SNP rep. Well done to Angela Constance for not rising to the bait and keeping her calm in the main.
Labour go down in my estimation every time they unleash an attack dog, but more and more their attack dogs have more bark than bite, and Anas Sarwar was more geriatric chihuahua with a touch of distemper than even toy poodle, yapping out the same scripted answers with absolutely no relevance to what the question of the moment required.
As to Rennie, well who can believe anything a Lib-Dem says even supposing it made sense in the first place. Hope he’s having his suits made of kevlar now as befitting his parties position of frontline Tory human shields (the Labour party try to fool everyone by hiding behind Cameron et al!).
I don’t think anyone would have made their mind up one way or another on the referendum vote on this programme, but the more negativity from the unionist parties that is seen on the tv, probably the better it will be for the Yes vote in the end.
Let’s get Johann on the next one, she can’t hide forever, and as she’s determined to confiscate all the ‘freebies’ we’re all getting here in Scotland, she should be forced to tell us why, and when exactly she lost her social principles.
ps: is anyone else totally fed up with this EU in or out, question. It’s not something I’m losing sleep over and not a decision that would come into effect the day after a Yes vote, so why all the fuss especially when Cameron’s back benchers are so shaky about the rise of UKIP that it looks like even the Tory party won’t know if England will be in or out the EU supposing they scrape a majority at the next general election? Wouldn’t that be ironic, some people voting No, on the behest of unionists, to ensure Scotland stays in the EU, then the unionist Tories have a referendum to take the UK out in the near future!
I sometimes despair at the relentless positivity, Stevie. Sometimes I wish the SNP rep would “get their retaliation in first”. After all, they pretty much know what drivel will be coming. It was odds-on that Sarwar would bring up the 9.3%/9.6% guff which basically allows them the freedom to say that we’re subsidised. Having the sums thrown their way in the first place would put them on the back foot. I believe it’s all going to come down to money – can we afford it? Of course we can, but people need to be told. The ultimate question has to be asked as well every single time – if we’re a drain on UK resources then why do the rest of the UK want us to stay? How, given that “fact” can the remainder be better together with us on board? It also needs to be pointed out that certain people are more worried about keeping their salaries than they are about the well-being of their homeland. Negative? I don’t think so – it needs to be rammed down their throats at every opportunity so it can be implanted into the public’s mind.
Please no Johann though. I genuinely cringe when she’s on. It’s real watch through the cracks in your fingers stuff.
I concur about the EU. It’s not something I give a rat’s backside about. Independence first and then sort out the details like that later.
Dave
Just a wee aside Dave.
I was at the YES Scotland launch in Dumfries last Saturday and mention was made of TWO planned debates that had Alistair Darling booked to be on the panel but then he pulled out. Why? Well because Blair Jenkins was also booked to be on the panel, and Darling doesn’t debate with non politicians. Aparently he is too feart to debate with non politicians in case he is made to look a bit of an idiot.
I di say Darling is feart to look a bit of an idiot, well perhaps some one should have a word in his shell like and tell him he doesn’t need to debate with Blair to look like an idiot, he already is an idiot.
Just as a wee aside to the wee aside here’s a wee poser for you.
When is an irrevocable decision NOT an irrevocable decision. If your stumped Dave here is a wee clue:
“This is not about picking a government for the next five years. If we decide to go down the independence route it is an irrevocable step – you’re talking about a completely different constitutional relationship, maybe for the next 200 or 300 years.”
You may recognise this statement from a certain Alistair Darling’s speech at the launch of the NO campaign, sorry Bitter Together, sorry Better Together campaign.
Now If you don’t mind skip forward to another speech by someone also called, coincidently, Alistair Darling in Prestonpans on Friday night.
“Speaking as he delivered this year’s John P Mackintosh Memorial Lecture in Prestonpans, East Lothian, on Friday evening, [Darling] said the ‘most obvious problem’ with a common currency was that ‘sooner or later it takes you to economic and then political union. So Scotland would leave the UK only to end up in the same place as it began, with all the trauma that would entail.’”
Now back to the original question. When is an irrevocable decision NOT an irrevocable decision?
Answers on a post card to:
A. Darling.
Home address
Edinburgh
OR
A. Darling
Flipped address
London
OR
A.Darling
Flipped address
Edinburgh
OR
A. Darling
Flipped address
Edinburgh
OR…….
Aye, that one was a cracker! The first problem we’ve got though is that on the off-chance that it’s ever reported in the media, the glaring inconsistency won’t be brought to the readers’/viewers’ attention. The second problem is that the likes of the SNP are too busy being positive to point it out.
I never realised the eyebrowed one was in Prestonpans the other night. That’s just along the road from me and I’ve still got some rotten tomatoes from the tail end of this year’s crop. I suppose the compost heap will benefit but it would’ve been nice to put them to better use.
Dave
Here’s a wee photo comparison between Friday’s Darling appearance and the March for Independence. Spot the crowd who were accused of being thugs.
OOPS!
Spot the eejit!
Guess who forgot to put the link up?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=390560987688581&set=a.136650206412995.35100.136640179747331&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf
I know this one! Is the eejit the guy at the bottom that’s telling everyone how many protesters there would’ve been if his other mate had shown up?
Dave